Projector issues with mono images.

Forums Crewe PS Business Projector issues with mono images.

This topic contains 18 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of  Anonymous 4 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #2865
    Profile photo of D. Williams
    D. Williams
    Participant

    It could just be me … but I couldn’t help thinking that there wasn’t just an issue with the projected copies of the mono prints from other clubs last week.  I thought all mono images including those from our own club displayed far from their best.  Coloured images were fine.  I am hoping this is fixed for tonights competition as those of us with mono images in will be at a considerable disadvantage and it would certainly put me off entering any B/W images in the future if the current projector settings were to stay.

    I am sure it is not easy to find a balance but I do think last week was the worst I have seen mono images displayed at the club.

    #2867
    Profile photo of John Royle
    ajroyle
    Keymaster

    Margaret and John Sixsmith’s images projected perfectly well, and they said so.

    The mono images last week were poor anyway – they were greyscale copies and over exposed, so thet lost any toning and looked poor.

    I have spent some time with the Spyder 3 making calibrations  for the projector. They varied from too red to absolutely awful and I had to delete them all from the sysytem. We are now back with the default settings. This is the same setting used on the Sixsmith evening.

    While I accept that the projection can be improved I think many members are not getting their images properly prepared. Projectors are inherently brighter than your monitor and you must take that into account when preparing your images. Preparing images on a cheaper laptop can be especially risky since the image varies greatly depending on the angle of view.

    Not many would agree that mono projected images give a good rendition and they don’t like mono PDIs. Part of this is the perception of what a good mono image is is based on decades of viewing and producing mono prints.  The print has a far lower overall brightness than a projected image on a screen – unless it too is being viewed under a high output lamp (which it never would be). The perception works in a different way with colour – there our “standard” is the over-saturated and bright image that we see on our television screens.

    #2869
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Lots of people  and there are “lots”   are returning  to film for as someone put it- digital mono”s  are  like photo copies. Film well processed and pro-scanned is pretty good and it would be interesting to see how it projects. Must get myself a projector.The att.  film negative taken a few months ago on  one of my 50year + Werra”s has not been well processed   and still searching for a good processor  as past doing it myself.  Scanning  at home is no good either.    

    #2873
    Profile photo of D. Williams
    D. Williams
    Participant

    Personally, in that case I would appreciate some guidelines as to how to prepare mono’s for PDI so they display as well as possible.  There must be a formula somewhere.   Maybe one of those open evenings could be put to good use to take an image that looks great on the club laptop but rubbish projected and see if there is a simple photoshop fix.

     

    #2874
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    There is a colour recipe to convert to mono. How do you convert colour to mono. No good in ccamera nor one click fixes.

    #2875
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Could be explaining what you know-sorry if so -but may help others.  On my Serif which is same as Photoshop-to convert colour to mono B/W.this is what I do.  Open image/   Click on Adjustment Layers/  click on Black & White-and image is now B/W.   On the right will be the adjustments colour scale –and for example on the image opened I have–RED  30–ORANGE  14–YELLOW  36–  GREEN  46–CYAN–70–BLUE  11–MAGENTA  41- ADJUST THESE SLIDERS   TO GET GOOD MONO FOR PARTICULAR PIC.       Its on Layers-so Merge to retain.   Lighten a tad to  print.  Darken a tad for PDI.   (this is how I win  all the mono cups!!!! )

    #2878
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    This image  probably shows  col to mono better.

    #2880
    Profile photo of D. Williams
    D. Williams
    Participant

    Thanks Ken.  I think the pub one works best.  Not sure whether to just darken the whole image in my case or adjust highlights and shadows etc individually.

    The mono’s tonight didn’t seem too bad (ok I was worrying over nothing much 😉 ) although I definitely need to work on compensating for the projector as mine always seem a bit bright and lacking in punch compared to what I have on my screen.  I will get there.  Can’t say I find printing the damned things any easier … but we live and learn.  This is only my first season of entering the competitions so I have a long way to go.

     

    #2881
    Profile photo of Ian McNab
    Ian McNab
    Keymaster

    Projected mono images tend, as John says above, to be too bright. I’ve been reasonably happy with the projected version of my monos  when I’ve lowered the overall exposure before submitting them, but deciding how much the offset should be is a bit hit and miss.

    As for processing, I find Silver Efex Pro 2 is really easy to use, offers very detailed control, and gives the best results I’ve ever had. It’s no surprise that it’s the industry standard for pro photographers doing digital mono images. You can get excellent results with other software, including Photoshop (CS / Elements / Lightroom):  it’s just harder and takes longer.

    #2901
    Profile photo of D. Williams
    D. Williams
    Participant

    Unfortunately I can’t afford anymore software at the moment although I have long admired the results you get with Silver Efex Ian. I have already tried the 30 day trial but wish I had  saved downloading it for when I had something specific to use it on.  Something for my wish list.

    I suppose I find the look of an image when it is simply darkened beyond what looks good on my screen in the hope it will be all right when projected,  a bit of a terrifying prospect when you have only 9 chances in a year to experiment.  I am sure I will work it out eventually.  I may follow Kens advice and take up knitting instead! 🙂

    #2902
    Profile photo of Ian McNab
    Ian McNab
    Keymaster

    Yes, the full price of SEP2 is a problem. (I got mine during my course, so qualified for the education discount.)  But you do a good job with the software you have – don’t turn to knitting!!!

    #2907
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Hi Delores Have just done a smashing deal /upgrade my usual to 6 and Topaz BW and Topaz Simplify for 60 quid inc post. BTW notice pic of week/ what did I post on 3d/ re copying others stuff. LOL

    #2908
    Profile photo of D. Williams
    D. Williams
    Participant

    Sounds like a great deal ken.  Send me a link if Topaz is doing an offer again.  Shame you missed the comp.  I am sure I could have removed your gag and handcuffs for tea and biscuits! 😉  Maybe next time?  x

    #2910
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    Another point to remember is to set your monitor to the grey scale John put on the web.Also make sure monitor is set to correct resolution. This example is my approach. The colour original.   The one click with no ajustment–R30 O60  Y89 G59 CY. 70 BL 11   MAG. 41    -All I  have done on the adjusted is reduce Red to   minus 50  which darkens the red boat.     —Increase Green to 161  which lightens the grass  and minus the Blue to -50 which darkens the shadows.  No need to like these-just explain my approach.     But soon I will have Topaz Black & White   and all click easy.

    #2915
    Profile photo of John Royle
    ajroyle
    Keymaster

    Get on the Topaz email list or watch their site for Webinars, sign up for one and at the end they will offer 30% discount.

    I am sure Ken will enjoy Topaz B&W. They would be the first to admit (as I have heard OnOne admit too) that the Nik Silver FX is the best mono software but it is expensive. The Topaz gives you a lot of control over the conversion – in a similar fashion to the style Ken refers to. It also has many PRESETS which allow you to try, even faster than a click, many many “treatments” which you can select from and then refine. I use it quite often – but I would still like Nik Silver FX!

    Lightroom too offers a number of prests for mono which are very good starting points.

     

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 9 months ago by Profile photo of John Royle ajroyle.
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